Christian Kelley-Madera LinkedIn keeps sending me emails. It's like, Hey, do you want to see what your ex girlfriend posted on LinkedIn? Do you want to see what your dad posted on LinkedIn? But no! for very different reasons. Like, the idea that, like, I tried to imagine living a kind of life were like, I don't have the kind of relationship with my dad where I can just ask him what's going on. But I do have the kind of relationship where I need to know what he's posting on LinkedIn. And I was like, Oh, this must be what it feels like to be Eric Trump, you know? Ian Harkins Should we start? Christian Kelley-Madera Yes, we should I've been recording. Zach Glass Perhaps we should. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. But let's... Zach Glass Hello everyone and welcome to this bonus commentary track of The Once And Future Nerd. Today we are going to be reviewing/revisiting Book One, Chapter Five: The Worthiest Knight. I'm Zach, I'm here joined as always with Christian. Hi, Christian. Christian Kelley-Madera Hi guys. Zach Glass And also with Anya Gibian. Hello, Anya. Anya Gibian Hi. Hello. Zach Glass And the incomparable Ian Harkins. What's...what was that? Hi! Now I need to think of something to compare you to. I've got nothing. Ian Harkins Well, if I'm incomparable, then I can't be compared to anything. Just like anything. That's...yeah. Zach Glass exactly. Anya Gibian Wait, have we all seen THE COURT JESTER? 1954 classic with Danny Kaye and Basil Rathbone and Angela Lansbury? Christian Kelley-Madera I have not. Ian Harkins That's the one with "get it got it good"? Anya Gibian Yes, I watched it the other night and there's the incomparable Giacomo so we could compare you to that. Zach Glass Done. That is who you are compared to. Christian Kelley-Madera Comparable only in his incomparableness. Zach Glass Yes. Well, banter aside today we're going to be listening to as I said, the Worthiest Knight Part One. Or...all of The Worthiest Knight beginning with part one. This episode first aired June 8 2014. Christian Kelley-Madera Good God. Zach Glass Which was was some time ago. So does anyone have any thoughts before we dive in? Any thoughts about the state of the world in 2014 or our personal situations back then? Christian Kelley-Madera Oh my god. Anya Gibian I was trying to remember what apartment I lived in in 2014. And now I remember and it was very small and the radiators were very loud. Ian Harkins I think I've regenerated since then. Yeah. No, I can't. 2014 I was in Brooklyn. And the rest is a blur. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I think I must have...I must have been...I must have been living in Harlem in 2014. I was probably working on Marco Polo season one for Netflix. Zach Glass Wow, Anya Gibian Did that get a season two? Christian Kelley-Madera It did. I did not work on Season Two, I don't know if anybody watched Season Two. No shade to the show. Although it was a it was a Weinstein project, so some shade. Anya Gibian And there go our careers. Zach Glass And on that note, should we just dive in? Christian Kelley-Madera Oh right, that's up to me. okay. Here we go. Ian Harkins Something that I'm aware of just technically from from listening to this now is like I've gotten used now to listening to podcasts at 1.5 speeds and so... Anya Gibian You monster. Ian Harkins Okay, I have a lot to get through. But just technically how, you know we do spend our time in these, and I think deservedly so, in just weaving the story together. With a just a slower pace that audio dramas sometimes demand. Christian Kelley-Madera I'm a big fan of silence especially in audio drama like I think, you know, it lets the the audience read a lot into the character's emotions. Zach Glass That being said, I do also partake in the 1.5 speed. Um, I do tend to play, you know, talk and news podcast faster than I do audio dramas, but I wouldn't be-- I wouldn't be above putting an audio drama at 1.1, 1.2 Christian Kelley-Madera I'm too much of a snob. I mean, I'll do it, I could see it for talk shows, but not comedy or fiction for me. Anya Gibian Well, talk conversations like tend to be faster paced because people are not setting up like a conversation for the purpose of like a plot or something happening. But literally just to talk about a topic. Things get like explained more rapidly. And yet, you don't really have to pay as much attention to like get the point because people tend to repeat themselves. Like I just did. Yeah. Ian Harkins Yeah, and people tend to repeat themselves Anya Gibian and each other to restate the point a couple times. Zach Glass Yeah. And then they'll restate the point once or twice. But to bring it back I do. I did really enjoy the pacing of this scene. I really liked the way we set up that that funeral moment for the late king Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah that was a nice, that was a nice moment. And this was I believe this was the last chapter with Hayes Dunlap, who was our first Yllowyyn, um, and... Ian Harkins Oh yes! Anya Gibian Was that the first switch-out? Christian Kelley-Madera No the first switch out was Emily who played Nia before-- actually no. First it was Paul subbed in for Perry. Anya Gibian Oh right. Christian Kelley-Madera Then it was Rhiannon in for Emily, and then it was Greg in for Hayes. Ian Harkins That's Paul. Christian Kelley-Madera That's Paul. Yeah. Anya Gibian That's definitely Rhiannon. Zach Glass I also liked the Assassin's Creed joke. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, it was a good one Ian Harkins Yep. Christian Kelley-Madera Oh, and Lily as Gwen. Ian Harkins I miss, uch I miss the early days of setting up this, this plotline Zach Glass It did have a long setup for a pretty satisfying fall at the end, now that we are where we are now in the plot. Ian Harkins Yeah, to think back on this, like-- I've, I have enjoyed the characters that we have gotten to do some hangtime on while--that aren't the three main kids from Pennsylvania. I think that-- and Arlene story has been particularly poignant and I like, you know, treat um-- take Ardel, take our necromancer, you know, all these people that it's just wonderful to see misery befall them now because we had all this time setting that up. Zach Glass Which I always find interesting because a lot of times in the later years when I try to introduce new folks to the show and they have to experience like the beginning with the characters before they've gotten to where they're going -- Ian Harkins Uh, sorry, one thing, they GET to experience. Continue. Christian Kelley-Madera My god... Zach Glass They get to experience-- but, but I do sometimes hear some comments that the burn is quite slow if you don't know that the payoff is coming. And for us we've experienced the payoff, we know it's coming but it's- it's interesting to hear back on. Christian Kelley-Madera I like that, like something yeah--. It's fun early on when like--Gwen as a character I think is really good at like finding moments, like little moments of empowerment to grab despite extremely disempowering circumstances I think that makes her a really interesting character and I think it makes her like a really good um, like almost a foil for Arlene in a way that helps Arlene grow. Ian Harkins Speaking of character choices,like Dan, like there's no way this cat-- like, if you just heard this character in isolation you'd go like " oh yeah he's the smarmy bad guy" Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah wonderful choice. Anya Gibian Dan gets so many smarmy bad guys Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah he's a victim of his own success in that-- Ian Harkins Even when he's assigned to play the good guy he's like-- Christian Kelley-Madera Yikes, forgot about that line. Ian Harkins Yeah, he's not, not-- Yeah, well it was 2014, times are different Anya Gibian Yes, "slut" was an insult. Now I do remember like that, that Arlene has come so far from being like so meek and like, terrified. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Ian Harkins So much has happened to her Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Anya Gibian Yes. Ian Harkins Some of like, the tensest scenes have been with Arlene Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah I can't remember what this-- I don't remember what the scene is. The other one was-- Ian Harkins I was just trying--- Christian Kelley-Madera Right this, this is my best John F. Kennedy. Um, because what what this guy-- Ian Harkins --Oh I thought it was found footage of JFK! I didn't know it was you. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah yeah yeah, thanks. Um, because what this guy says about Traft is like, very closely modeled on an interview that Kennedy gave about Fidel Castro in like '62 or something, that if you go back and read it's like, it's remarkable in today's context that he said that and still got to be president. But so anyway, when I encountered that quote, I... it stuck with me and I, you know, incorporated it into this this bit, which is why I just decided this guy sounded like JFK. Ian Harkins Feel free to disagree with me creators and Anya, but I feel like we spent a lot of the first year maybe two of of The Once And Future Nerd, sort of making it--. We've already talked about an Assassin's Creed reference. We're talking about this reference, like, we tried to weave references into a lot of things. So that's that's just scratching the surface, those two examples. And now we're just comfortable to let the story drive itself a lot more. Agree or disagree? Christian Kelley-Madera Hmmm.... Ian Harkins Not comfortable, but but we are, but we have so much more story to get through that we just get through the story more. Anya Gibian I think the references we make are more self referential now that we've established enough of like a world building. Ian Harkins Mmmm Anya Gibian And like whether, maybe the original reference was like something outside of the world. And now there's enough like, ongoing, like, not even like joke, but just like ongoing sort of building on the references. Ian Harkins Yeah, so now how like, you know, the narrator can make fun of themselves from earlier, or we, we bring back to "Imagine if you can what life is like for a rabbit", and, um ... yeah. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a good way to say it. Like, we just we have so many more toys in our sandbox now. And like, when we started, we had to steal toys from other people's sandboxes. But now we've, we've got a very full sandbox. Anya Gibian I also like, like, I mean, Game of Thrones was out, but it was like new when we started. You know? Maybe like three-- Ian Harkins --Yeah we did video games--oh god-- Anya Gibian --Yeah.I feel like there's like, just like a huge, like a rich, more rich like fantasy into the mainstream nowadays. Christian Kelley-Madera Mmm Anya Gibian And maybe we're trying to be, I think we're trying to sort of position ourselves as like, "We're like this thing. We're kind of like this thing. We're kind of like this thing". Like, "You should like us because we're similar to property you might have heard of". Christian Kelley-Madera Right, right, right. Anya Gibian And now Game of Thrones and like House of Dragon or like, the Lord of the Rings sequel, or just like, you know, everywhere and promote, like, Christian Kelley-Madera It's like, people get it. We don't have to, like, sell people on fantasy. Ian Harkins Oh, yeah. Actually--It's a prequel Anya. Whatever. Anya Gibian Sure. Ian Harkins Thanks for inviting me here, guys. Anya Gibian Do you want to spoil the end for everyone? Zach Glass I think maybe we've done that. The self-reference-- or the referencing outside things as one off bits less as we don't need that as a crutch. But I think we do still have some pretty large, you know, big picture things we'll still reference. Like, I mean, the main baddie west of the mountains is an elf named Tymm lo'Yff. Who sounds a lot like Thomas Jefferson, like we are still doing things like that. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah... Anya Gibian Oh I didn't get that, thank you for explaining. Ian Harkins I got it because it was explained to me so... Zach Glass This is, this is the way Christians mind works. More than mine, let's say. Am I wrong Christian? Christian Kelley-Madera You're not wrong. I love to get I love to get roasted on my own podcast. Zach Glass Well, do have we have the group with with us for you right now. Ian Harkins I'm gonna pitch this right now. We just have one episode that drops into the main feed of just everyone roasting Christian. Christian Kelley-Madera Oh, good. Ian Harkins I'll start. No adult man should love Bruce Springsteen that much Christian Kelley-Madera This was one of the first things that we did where I was like, I know these characters well enough that we can like, play. Like we can be like-- there's this whole bit going on where Regan and Brennen both imagine what they think the other characters would have said. And I think that still works really well and was really fun. Zach Glass Oh, yeah, I remember this Ian Harkins Oh that's a good question, How-- how long Christian and Zach like does it feel like you need to have a character before you can start to play around with them like how long do you work on his character establishment and now let's set them in the world. Zach Glass I think I was always more concerned about than Christian was. Christian had a lot of faith in our audience that they pick up on it really quickly. And there were a lot of things where I was kind of holding the reins back a bit. But Christian was all for jumping into that pretty quickly. Christian Kelley-Madera I think for me, it's like it kind of depends like--... Oh my god, I forgot about that line-- Um... I think it kind of depends on like what happens to the character. Like characters kind of, I think reveal themselves at different paces the more things happen. But you know, we've talked a lot about how like, chapter four which we did the last commentary on was the one where we like really felt like we had our legs underneath us. So it makes sense that the following one is one that like we could start to play I did really enjoy this this premise, or bit, where we had Regan and Brennen being detectives and kind of assembling the conversations that they imagined the party was happening. I really enjoyed this. Zach Glass So yeah, so to answer your question, I suppose the last chapter chapter four was approximately episode six plus four plus four so episode 15 was the start of chapter four where we started feeling comfortable so 15, 20 episodes in is you know a good solid couple hours of screen time. And also you know a couple years of writing time Anya Gibian And chemistry. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Zach Glass Chemistry too is a huge deal. Anya Gibian Just like, working together and working in this medium more, understanding a little bit better, just how to do it Ian Harkins Agreed. Zach Glass Speaking of these one off references to generic video games? I was just thinking about how much I enjoy Nia's character. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. And I think there was a little bit of a needle to thread in this episode of like, it's kind of a fun episode. But like, we had two really impactful deaths at the end of the last chapter that we also needed to like leave room to deal with. Zach Glass Yeah. And I liked the way this chapter sort of weaves through, like the-- we know in retrospect that the whole mystery that they're tracking on is sort of a consequence of Jen dealing with that death. But as we're listening, the audience doesn't necessarily know that until the end. I like how we crafted that. To be very self congratulatory again. Christian Kelley-Madera What is the point of these if not to be self congratulatory? Oh, yeah, this is the first chapter where we like really get explicit that Jen has powers I think. I think we like foreshadowed it in two? But this is the first time we really were like "Yep, she got powers". Zach Glass Yeah. Ian Harkins Here's a question.What, what studio were we in when we did this one? Christian Kelley-Madera I think this would have been the Brooklyn one. Ian Harkins Oh, that one in that one in Bushwick. And Anya Gibian That was like one episode, maybe two? Christian Kelley-Madera No, we I think we were there for like-- Ian Harkins No, we were there for a while.. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, we were there for like the latter half of of book one, I believe. Ian Harkins When we realized that your living room was not a long term solution. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, we did... Anya Gibian ...We did a couple of like Chelsea though. Christian Kelley-Madera Yes. So first, we did my living room that didn't work. Then we... Anya Gibian So many ambulances. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Then we kind of like, did it at my office without authorization. And then that didn't work when people unexpectedly-- Ian Harkins I wasn't gonna tell! Christian Kelley-Madera And then it didn't work when people unexpectedly were working a Saturday that we planed to record and I had to tell everybody, like, "Don't show up, don't show up!" And then yeah, then we were in Chelsea for a couple chapters, like two or three chapters. Oh, you know what? No, we recorded... We recorded the scene when Arlene confronts her cousin, we were definitely in Chelsea for that. And that's, I think Six. So we were, yeah, we were in Chelsea through chapter six. And then I think seven through 10 we were in Bushwick. And then for Book Two we were with, with Jared in Soho until the pandemic. Oh, yes, right. We introduce a lot of things about Regan in this chapter. I think this is this is the first time that like we canonically say that she has sex with women and it's also the first time we introduce her, her gunpowder fetish. Ian Harkins Also, can we take a moment Anya Gibian doing a flawless Boston accent since 2014 Anya Gibian No idea what you're talking about. It's really not a Boston accent it's really just a Regan accent and Christian Kelley-Madera Yes it's kind of become it's own... Anya Gibian it's become its own thing, for sure. Yeah. Zach Glass I remember you used to use "monetary policy" as a touchstone Anya Gibian Still my way in! Ian Harkins No, no, no, no, no . That was not the full intro, as I remember. Zach Glass No it was not the full intro. I was opening the door if anyone else would like to walk through. Ian Harkins Anya, ladies first. Anya Gibian Wait, what? I don't remember what it is. Ian Harkins It was, I believe it was monetary policy. And and something else else makes my nipples hard. Christian Kelley-Madera Wicked, wicked hard. Ian Harkins Wicked hard! Yeah there it is. Anya Gibian Oh yeah, yeah. I think it was just "monetary policy makes my nipples wicked hard". But now there's now it's just like at this point, it's just like a mouth shape. Like, I don't know there's just like-- Christian Kelley-Madera --Your jaw, like, watching you record like your jaw just gets really tense whenever you're Regan. Anya Gibian Yeah. Yeah, it's just like the face kind of like comes like a little forward and then it's like everything is like kind of like small. And t hat's like it's it's yeah, it's more of a muscle memory at this point. Zach Glass It's amazing to me how you can just fall into that in like, a conversation like this. Anya Gibian Well, actually, I was thinking as, listening-- when we listened to the Arlene scene earlier, I was like, I think that her voice has actually evolved quite a bit and become like more lyrical. Zach Glass Mm Mhmm. Christian Kelley-Madera It's very it's very like head voice now. Anya Gibian Yeah, it's kind of gotten higher. It's yeah, it's it's a little higher range. And I think actually Regan I've pitched a little lower also over the years. Just this this early one still still seems like it's a little um, a little higher than she's been talking. Sort of less growly too. But also she's been injured. Yeah, like the past year. Christian Kelley-Madera And I think that I think that happens like, famously, our, our buddy, Zach Valenti on Wolf 359, when they started, like Eiffel and Hilbert's voices were very, very similar. And as the show went on, kind of Eiffel got a little more nasally and Hilbert got a little more bassy. Zach Glass I wonder to what extent our very spread apart recording schedule played into this, like, as we were talking about this was 2014, we've had a lot of time to digest these characters. And I wonder what what you all think, if we would have reached the same level of character development, if we were cranking these out, you know, one a month or whatever? Ian Harkins Hmm. Well, if we were cranking them out once a month, I don't know how much leeway that gives the writers and I think that only the, you know the only way you can craft a decent character as an actors, because the writers have already done 90% of the work for you. Um... would be my answer. Sometimes it's it's sometimes it can be a bit challenging even to remember, you know, Anya, credit to her, just now said like, oh, but Arlene has been hurt for a while now. And I have to sort of remember if I'm playing different characters as well, who who has had what happened to them recently. And sometimes I'll try to go back and listen to some past episodes, before doing these. Like, I don't think I've had to go back as far as this in a while. But that's something I find I have to do quite frequently. I was doing it for, um.... oh goodness, who did I have to do that for? Christian Kelley-Madera Mag Uidhir, maybe? Ian Harkins It was 100% Mag Uidhir. Yes, it was 100% McGuire, and spoiler alert with some things that I don't think quite been released yet. But a conversation that he has had, has now taken a few episodes. And yes, that was exactly it. It was going back and trying to remember exactly what the setup was to that, how long it had taken him to get there. And some of the points he was trying to make in the conversation, and why. Was that vague enough not to spoil it? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Zach Glass I think that was perfect Ian Harkins Good for me! Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, this is, so...I specifically remember some like fan reaction to this scene of just like explicitly saying that Regan has sex with women. And now like, audiodramas, like every character is gay in audio drama. But I think it, it stuck out at the time of just like, just saying it, you know? Zach Glass Saying it pretty uh...bluntly and crudely, as this episode is showing us right now, Anya Gibian As Regan is want to do. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, there's no, there's no euphemism in Regan's world. Ian Harkins Hey, like we sure we've been around long enough that I'd like to think we were still cutting edge on some things. Zach Glass Oh yeah, we were still trying to play off like, some sort of Game of Thrones ish like intrigue between houses in Iorden at this time, before we quickly realized this was not our strength and not a very interesting story. Christian Kelley-Madera For just I mean, I think... I think it just it went in a different path. Like oh, we found the other stuff that was more interesting, which I think is good because then it's like feels like our thing. Zach Glass Mm hmm for a while I had some high hopes for that as a storyline though, but I'm kinda glad it did not pan out. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Anya Gibian I think it gives some, gave some details or at least like more sort of rich world building about like the different geographic areas of the world and like what the houses value based on that and stuff. Ian Harkins Hmm, Because we didn't do that with the accents, God help us, so the story needed to do some of the work Zach Glass Yeah, we were a bit uh...cavalier with accents, weren't we? New Character? New accent! Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. And it was on purpose like, because one of the first things we talked about, that we wanted to do is like, Why does fantasy mean modern day English accents only. So we may have swung the pendulum a little too far. But you know, you got to try stuff to see what works. Anya Gibian Also, if you have what we had, like yeah, we'd like eight actors, maybe 10? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, so you kind of had to... Julie is so good at like, I love when Julie gets to like chew scenery. Like, act-- be a worse actor than she is , you know, it's like it's like Julianne Moore in in Boogie Nights Zach Glass I really enjoyed that scene where-- Anya Gibian Brennen is pretty bad at...anything Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah he's not a good writer. This was our first-- Ian Harkins I'm just enjoying the scene now. Go ahead. Christian Kelley-Madera I was gonna say I think part of the reason you're enjoying the scene is because this was our first, uh or maybe our second sound designer who we had for almost all of book one. Sandra Ramirez and she was so good. And I mean, all of our sound designers are great. But Sandra was, I don't think we ever would have gotten kind of off the ground without Sondra. And then she had to she had to leave us because her career in sound editing for telenovellas took off. And like, if you find her on IMDb she has like 8000 credits because telenovellas make like three episodes a day. Zach Glass We really had incredible luck finding amazing people who want to be a part of this show. Christian Kelley-Madera yeah Zach Glass Very much present company included Ian Harkins You do realize I'm here? Zach Glass Oh, that's true. I take it back. Christian Kelley-Madera Nevermind Anya Gibian Yeah Ian, your enthusiasm is really lacking. Ian Harkins like, "if I could give you a note Ian". Zach Glass I am also just enjoying listening. I haven't listened to this episode in a while and it's-- Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah Zach Glass We've definitely found our legs by this point I think. If not by the last chapter of course, but it's it's sounding good. Anya Gibian I think it also sounds like a little like it has like a sort of a similar pacing to a television episode in like a way that feels like familiar and nice. Christian Kelley-Madera Mhmm Ian Harkins ...I said the word "Exodus" weird... Zach Glass Well so certainly at this time Christian you were writing it as though we were writing a TV episode, right? Christian Kelley-Madera Totally. Zach Glass It took a while to sort of push the podcast medium a little more? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I think that's fair. Zach Glass In the behind the scenes, I'm always the one kind of pushing a little bit to break away from some of those traditional, you know, TV episode pacings and so forth, and Christian is always the one reminding me that that's like, a good --like it's the storytelling method the TV uses because it works. And it is, it is comfortable you're right Anya. Ian Harkins Which one of you studs wrote that line? Zach Glass I really liked that exchange. Ian Harkins Mmmm Zach Glass How she gets so mad about not having science that she admits to burning down half the town? I feel like that's, you know, seven or eight years earlier but that sounds like a Brooklyn Nine Nine joke. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Zach Glass Is this the first appearance of Antonin? It must be I think. Ian Harkins I think it's the first time we see him but I mean, we've-- We've heard about him. --We've spoken about him Yeah, we've we've heard about him but now we get to meet him! Anya Gibian I mean, We don't get to see him. Zach Glass That's, That's true. I feel like early on we actually had this debate about whether we can call our listeners "viewers". I don't know why pretty stupid. Ian Harkins Again, sort of credit to Paul, there's something about the sort of the again, the character and vocal choice of like that deeper thing that you immediately go "Ah, here's the good guy". Christian Kelley-Madera Mm Zach Glass M hmm Ian Harkins it's wonderful to sort of play that off against Dan's choices. Christian Kelley-Madera Who's always willing to be the villain. Anya Gibian And I think also that's like fun that he comes across a little bit as like boring, and then he gets to like have his moment of being clever later Christian Kelley-Madera He's one of the he's one of the most decent guys in the whole show, Antonin. Anya Gibian Yeah, I don't predict things going well for him in the future, but we'll see. I mean no, I don't know anything I'm just, you know, sometimes you have to sacrifice the good people for the plot Zach Glass Paul also manages to change antonyms voice so much that I often have, I struggle remembering who's the the actor playing Antonin because it doesn't-- it's so far from Paul in my mind. Especially the pacing. Ian Harkins Case in point Zach Glass Yeah, Antonin very quickly latched on to something evil going on with Ardel there. What a jerk. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, what a piece of shit. Anya Gibian Also what jerks for writing "Nyylini " that I remember was quite a sticking point in the recording session. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I also just had flashbacks. Anya Gibian Like, oh no, that word is coming Ian Harkins Was that Zach? Was that voicing that? Christian Kelley-Madera No, that was a--. That was a throwback to an earlier inside joke where it was impossible to say "myrrh" in Regan's accent Anya Gibian Haha, yes, listeners I don't know if you know this. But there are several things several words over the years that I've asked to have been rewritten due to the impossibility of me to say them with a straight face. Zach Glass So obviously the solution to that is to have a goat say it instead. Ian Harkins For more on this, check the outtakes. Christian Kelley-Madera I remember at one point saying okay, fine, I'll change the word, but I'm going to put a semicolon in your sex scene and then I did. Anya Gibian Yes, I don't pronounce a semicolon. So that was not an issue. Ian Harkins I'm so immature that "I'm going to put a semicolon in your sex scene" is the best thing that's happened to me today. Anya Gibian Also I love that Ardel can't even imagine that he might even like Arlene. He's like, why do you want to spend time with someone that you are going tobe married to? Christian Kelley-Madera Right? I think that's the thing about like, really really shitty people is that they project their shittiness on to other people and can't imagine that anybody would be nice to anybody else. Ian Harkins Oh, is this the... the...Oh I know the scene? I thought this is very clever, this scene. Christian Kelley-Madera Thank you. Ian Harkins I forgot that this was this episode. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff this chapter. Ian Harkins Yes, because this is a wonderful wonderful like intro to character of like, Ah, now we get to see what this man is made of. Christian Kelley-Madera Mmm Ian Harkins Is it, Is it heat? The movie with Al Pacino plays a --- Christian Kelley-Madera Yes Ian Harkins --a cop who's doing like a drug--? Do you know what I'm about to say? Christian Kelley-Madera I don't... Ian Harkins He's playing a cop during a drug bust. Christian Kelley-Madera Oh does he give this same monologue basically? Ian Harkins No, no, it's not the monologue, it's not the monologue, it's the intro to the character, where at the beginning, they um, so he's doing a drug bust, he's luring people in to be pounced on by the police. And then you know, they lured them there by saying you know, free tickets to such and such a thing. And one of the suspects they want to arrest comes up and he's brought his kids son with him. And Al Pacino just like flashes the guy his badge and says, "go on, get out of here, there's no prize today". And so the guy turns around and takes his son away. And so what you're supposed to get from that is that Pachino is like a hard nosed cop but he's got a code and he's not going to bust him in front of his son. Like that's kind of what I feel like happens here where we learn something about Antonin and what he's about. I've lost a little bit of track where we are in the episode but what he's about to do here-- Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah... Zach Glass Here we go Ian Harkins So the audience goes, Why did you do this? Christian Kelley-Madera Such a good job of like you know, pretending to be you know, very apologetic. Like, one piece of writing advice that I got early on that I always try to take to heart is like, the first thing you see a character do should tell you something useful about the, the character. Ian Harkins That is so much more of a succinct way of describing my whole Al Pacino thing, yeah. Anya Gibian I watched knives out yesterday to prepare for the sequel. Christian Kelley-Madera That's such a good movie. Anya Gibian And there's so many like little details that like add up to the characters who are like pretending to be different, you know, good people. And yet like all of the time, like there's so many little like... dialogue choices and like looks and like just like setups that are-- Christian Kelley-Madera --And the fact that nobody knows what country Ana d'Armas is from Anya Gibian Yes, yes, literally every country in South America is named. That's great. I just love the, like "immigrants they get the job done" "I started at the public" that joke. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, yeah, no, that's yeah there's you know there's something you reminded me one of my favorite lines in this movie is is like, akin to what we did with the Brennen Regan thing of like, kind of taking somebody else's account of something like for for granted where the, there's like the young girl who's says that the younger boy-- the even younger boy is like an alt right troll and accuses him of jerking off in the bathroom and later when Daniel Craig is like giving an account of what happened he's like yes in the downstairs bathroom where the Nazi boy was masturbating. Anya Gibian "And what did he hear?" Christian Kelley-Madera Rian Johnson has never made a movie I don't like. I'm very excited for the next knives out. Oh there's Jess. I forgot this was the the dream-- the dream girl Zach Glass Was this the first appearance? Christian Kelley-Madera No Anya Gibian We haven't had one in a while have, have we? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah we have not. Ian Harkins What's with that? Christian Kelley-Madera No comment Anya Gibian doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo Zach Glass Oh here's the...moral ambiguity isn't the right word but... she realized is that there's, you know, good and bad things... Yeah there's that sort of TV timing again, right? Christian Kelley-Madera I think we have gotten a little more confident about letting action scenes play out without necessarily feeling like we have to play-by-play it, and then the the narrator can just come in when like extremely necessary, or for like helpful color and I think it makes the pacing better. Ian Harkins Which I will also say, I like, I like giving lines away to the action of what's actually going on. I think is more compelling. Anya Gibian Yeah, we've been getting better at our different grunts. Christian Kelley-Madera That's also true. Ian Harkins Thank God someone said it. Christian Kelley-Madera Guys, there's a chunk coming up in chapter nine that the listeners have not heard yet. There are some truly incredible grunts from our friends Greg and Dan. Very excited for everyone to hear that. Ian Harkins Oh, yes. I was listening in on that. Zach Glass It has caused some questions for me though. Um, I've been uploading our episodes to YouTube and converting the scripts into closed captioning. And now that we were leaving more towards the action, it becomes a little bit more more unclear how to properly closed caption it, especially with, YouTube tries to algorithmically line it up with words that it heres. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah Zach Glass So when there are words that are not said it confuses their, their closed captioning algorithm. So when we when we leave more of fight scenes to sound cues, it gets a little confusing in that regard. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah... Zach Glass But I don't think that should stop us from doing it. I think it works quite well. Audially Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah I think we might have to find a way to be a little more accurate in our after the fact transcription. Zach Glass Yeah. And the the full scripts are always available. The the closed captioning is just for what YouTube like, autofills on the screen but there's always access to the full script PDF form. This is where Friezhelm was trying to choke her and then she electrocuted his metal armor and so fried her own throat. Anya Gibian Just like The Court Jester. I'm sorry, this is a great movie and everyone should watch it. If you've not seen 1954's The Court Jester please look it up and watch it, it's amazing. Angela Lansbury is like 21 and so hot it's amazing. Christian Kelley-Madera Does it stream anywhere? Anya Gibian Uh... yeah. it's on some like free old movie app. Christian Kelley-Madera interesting Anya Gibian She's such a buzzkill, Nia, Jeez. Zach Glass But she had that "thank you for not listening to me" line. I enjoyed that line. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah Yllowyyn has come a long way in terms of like not thinking he knows better than everybody. which is admittedly a very like 17 year old problem to have but I'm proud of Yllowyyn. Zach Glass That was, that was fairly intentional though at the very start of book Two, right? Christian Kelley-Madera Absolutely. Zach Glass Like when his world kind of fell apart Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Zach Glass And then we had him learn contrition. Good line! Ian Harkins What a great soundscape! Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, [inaudible] Ian Harkins Yeah, listen to us setting the scene. Zach Glass Yeah, I like this scene too. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Anya Gibian Brennen just wants to be a Knight. I love this moment I forgot about this. Ian Harkins Is this the first queenly thing that Regan does? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I think so, and we're pretty intentional about that. Anya Gibian This is a really sweet moment, but I also think that it's like still kind of a game to her in her head. Like just the lightness of it versus like, what happens in our you know, where we currently are in the story and like the heavy purpose that she carries, taking it more seriously. Zach Glass But I do like how she checks if that'll make it count any less for him if Nia says the words. That's a, that is a sweet gesture like she realizes that it's, you know, the forms do matter to some extent, to some people. Anya Gibian Yeah. Christian Kelley-Madera I love that she's like, "Oh, yeah, I know there's a sword involved somewhere". Zach Glass That's a good ending for the chapter. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah it is. Zach Glass I like that. Ian Harkins I'm liking how our commentary is just our giggling at things and going like, "Oh, I think we did a great job there. I like this bit". Christian Kelley-Madera This is, if you've ever watched Arnold Schwarzenegger do a commentary on one of his movies, they're, they're quite similar. I think the best one is Total Recall because like Paul Verh-- Ian Harkins [Arnold Schwarzenegger impression] This is my favorite part Christian Kelley-Madera Paul Verhoeven is really trying to talk about like, what a scene meant and like how he got a shot, and all this like interesting filmmaking stuff. And Arnold is there like literally just describing the movie and saying this is my favorite scene. Zach Glass Well, would anyone have any concluding thoughts? They want to end our discussion of this chapter? Other than-- Ian Harkins Yes. Thank god Christian let me start doing the outro credits. This is nonsense! Anya Gibian When did we start having everybody say their own names? Christian Kelley-Madera That's a good question. I don't remember. Anya Gibian I like that. I like that personal-- Christian Kelley-Madera I think it was season two? Yeah, maybe. Ian Harkins Or year two, I think it was. There's a wave of nostalgia coming back listening to these, and it's fun chatting with everybody. Like how far we've come as, there's a lot of great memories that have been made around this silly little project of Zach and Christians and I'm just happy to ride on the coattails of Zach Glass There was no coattail riding, if anything, it's the reverse. Christian Kelley-Madera Exactly. Anya Gibian We're all on a magic carpet Zach Glass Of MC Escher, coattails, everyone sitting on each other's coattails. Christian Kelley-Madera Now that was a fun chapter and I think it it did kind of it, it showed a comfort with the world and the the characters that was that was new to us at the time. Anya Gibian Yeah, and also like, you know, some some big sort of psychological journeys. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, it was a good midway point for the season, because I think it kind of set up the characters arcs for the rest of the book in a lot of ways. Anya Gibian And setting up going into the white forest next. Ian Harkins Yeah. Yeah. Zach Glass I'm very glad we listened to and discuss this. Um, the next chapter that comes after this is The Singing Sister, which is an all time top chapter. And we almost chose to skip this chapter for commentary and jump straight to The Singing Sister, which is also a very good chapter. But I'm glad we discussed this one. This was a good reflection and reminiscing. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Ian Harkins No there's too much good stuff that happens in this one. Yeah. We'll do The Singing Sister another time. Christian Kelley-Madera Thank you guys so much for joining us. Is there anything we want to plug before we leave? I have one. And that is that the incomparable Ian Harkins, his production company has an audio drama out. It is called The Iron Anthology, right? Is that it? Yes. Ian Harkins Christian, you are you are too kind. Yes. So we have come out with three audio dramas, each 45 minutes long, called, Ore, Blood, and Lock. And together they're called Iron Anthology, which if you look up Iron Anthology on your Apple podcasts, your Spotify,s your etc, you will find. Thank you very, very much for saying so Christian! Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I've listened to, I've listened to all three. They're extremely good. There... It's like they're, you know, they're written by like, like real playwrights not, you know, two, two dipshits like this show. And they're really well written, really well performed. And you guys should check them out. Ian Harkins And I have performed in one of them. So have fun seeing if you can spot me in one of them. Zach Glass I have not listened to yet. And I'm very excited to listen, I'm looking forward to it. Ian Harkins Points off for Zach Anya Gibian I didn't know it existed. So, this is my first time hearing about it Ian Harkins You, you're a part of our target audience. Anya Gibian I'll cue that up for my next, my next road trip. Zach Glass Anya, do you have anything going on that you want to shout out? Anya Gibian Ah, not really. If you're around Ithaca, New York on Wednesdays, come on over to the Argos Inn and listen to some jazz and you might hear me sing. Christian Kelley-Madera Nice! Zach Glass That's awesome. I didn't know you're doing that. Anya Gibian It's a hyper hyperlocal endorsement. Christian Kelley-Madera Sure. Anya Gibian It's, it's actually really, really fun. Zach Glass Nice. I also want to shout out, um, our fabulous artists, John Flanagan, who has been creating our end-of-chapter artwork that patrons have had access to. He has a link tree to all of his other work. So if you're if you're looking for some cool art, it's linktr.ee/malbatross. M A L B A T R O S S. And he has a little bit of Once And Future Nerd work up there, but also a lot of his own artwork. And, John, we've-- I've known John for a long time. And he's an incredible artist. So everyone go check out his work. Christian Kelley-Madera I'll put a link in the in the show notes. Zach Glass Absolutely. And on that note, I believe The Once And Future Nerd is taking a winter break hiatus now. But we should be back in 2023 for the next chapter. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, Janu--we're taking December off. Ian Harkins Another year! Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, we'll be back in at the last Sunday of January for the premiere of Book Two chapter nine, which I think is possibly my favorite chapter to date. I really like this one. I'm excited for everyone to hear it. Zach Glass Yes. Very looking forward to hearing you all there. In the meantime, you can always reach out to us by the usual channels-- Christian Kelley-Madera --Provided Twitter is still around when you hear this. Zach Glass Yes. That is that is a fair point. As of now you can still reach us on Twitter. You can also, I believe our website has a link to the Discord. If you'd like to join other fans of the show in the discussions. Please feel free to check that out, or Facebook, or on our website or so forth. And see you all in 2023! Christian Kelley-Madera Thanks everyone! Ian Harkins Happy set of major holidays everybody. Christian Kelley-Madera Yes Zach Glass Indeed. Anya Gibian Yes. Bundle up if you are in a cold place Christian Kelley-Madera thanks everybody. Zach Glass Thanks. Bye. Ian Harkins Bye Anya Gibian Bye, Thank you! Christian Kelley-Madera Wait you -- don't you guys don't constantly get served Mike's Hard Lemonade commercials on YouTube? Zach Glass No.. Ian Harkins no.. Anya Gibian No.. Christian Kelley-Madera That's like, that's all I get. Anya Gibian That's you. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Every time. Zach Glass How many times are you googling Mike's Hard Lemonade? That your ad server thinks this? Christian Kelley-Madera Zero. think that-- I don't want this. Ian Harkins I think that the fact that you're talking about it on the internet is only going to make it worse Christian Kelley-Madera Probably. Anya Gibian I get fubo that like you could rent a whole house for vacation. Obviously because I just go to Mexico Christian Kelley-Madera Oh, yeah yeah yeah yeah Anya Gibian They're like, Wow, this bitch always wants to rent a house somewhere and leave. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Yeah, they're stupid commercials. It's like oh, we're like really like rough cowboys. And I make the half and half lemonade iced tea by round kicking my friend in the face with a jar of iced tea and lemon. And it's like, Guys, just, it's it's so like, it's a little bit tongue in cheek. Ian Harkins Sounds like you have no sense of humor. Christian Kelley-Madera It's, it's like you can tell that the whole point of the commercials are, we have to like, we have to be tongue in cheek so we can make men be comfortable drinking lemonade. And it's like, Guys, it's lemonade, like, step outside of the unlocked prison cell of gender and just have a fucking lemonade without making it violent. Ian Harkins That--I think they have found their next ad campaign... Anya Gibian The amount of I mean, the amount of like college dudes that I've seen drinking White Claw in Ithaca, like you'd think it's not an issue, or even those like little like, cans of like pineapple vodka, drink, whatever that are like, totally just malt liquor. Christian Kelley-Madera That's why I'm kind of like who's like who is this for? Maybe it's my bubble. Yeah, I'm like, Who is this for? But just, guys just have a fucking lemonade. It's fine. Anya Gibian I really want to have a podcast now of like, just people. Just an interview podcast of some- of anyone just being like, This is who I am. This is how I go through the world. And this is my personalized ads that I get served on YouTube and Instagram and Facebook and how they're like nothing like me. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Transcribed by https://otter.ai