Zach Glass Hello everyone, and welcome to Ask The Once And Future Nerd for Book Two chapter seven. I'm Zach. I'm here with Christian. Hi, Christian. Christian Kelley-Madera Hey guys. Zach Glass And we might be having another one or two guests joining at some point, but for now it's the two of us flying solo and we're here to discuss Chapter Seven. Christian, how are you doing today? Christian Kelley-Madera All right, how you doing? Zach Glass Doing well. Excited to talk about this chapter, our first chapter back after our unfortunately long break. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, Zach Glass But we're happy to be here. So yeah, let's let's get into it. Let's talk about this chapter. Do you want to, do you want to set us up a little bit about? You know, tell us about the chapter a bit. Tell us your thoughts on it. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, like kind of a recap? Zach Glass Yeah, yeah, go for that. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. So we ended the last chapter, chapter six, with the party having seemingly rescued Nia's parents from Ry'y lo-Th'yyt and her lieutenants. And the last three members of the party, which were Brennen, Regan and Jen, about to make their getaway. Regan makes a last minute unilateral decision to go back and try to kill Ry'y lo-Th'yyt. It doesn't go well, she is badly injured. Jen saves her at the last minute. And as a result of all of this, they are not able to deliver Ren what they had promised in exchange for like getaway and safe passage to the Sugarcane Isles. And so they are then forced to make a choice about, because only four people can now be smuggled into the Sugarcane isles. And the-- a lot of the chapter is devoted to, A, making the choice of who that's going to be. And Two, kind of dealing with the the aftermath of you know, Reagan kind of, kind of screwed the pooch on this one, made a unilateral decision that did not go well and messed everybody else up. We have the return of the of course very much alive, Antonin Mooncrest who returns to the Castle Guernatal suspiciously quickly for someone who had been recovering from very bad injuries far away, allegedly, and was totally not a phantom stalking around the castle the whole time. And we also had some further developments of, basically, of First Snow and Steady River, of them going to go ask the Federation for, for help with the elf encroachment on their territory. I think that's all of the extra plots, I might be forgetting something-- my brain is actually on chapter nine right now so I might have missed some things, Zach I did I forget anything important? Zach Glass No, I think, I think those are the big, the big points and I want to talk a little bit about the Antonin stuff a little later, and a little bit about the First Snow stuff in a moment as well. But let's talk about the the main plot first. Christian Kelley-Madera Sure Zach Glass I think it was a really interesting chapter in that we've had a lot of Go Go action for a few chapters in a row previously. And this chapter was really not as as action driven we had a cool action scene at the beginning of of episode one getting into the boat, but after that it was really a, almost like a character growth chapter in a way. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Zach Glass There was a lot of, as you mentioned, it really was a, a decision that Reagan made-- spoiler alerts. By the way, I usually mention this at the beginning of the Q&A episodes. anyone new to The Once And Future Nerd if this is the first episode you're listening to welcome thank you for joining us, now please pause this episode. Go back listen, because we're going to be discussing the plot pretty heavily-- retroactive spoiler alerts to that summary Christian just gave but yeah. But so so it really is this decision that Reagan makes unilaterally that they had sort of escaped, they had done their their plan, they executed it fairly well. And then Reagan decides that it wasn't what she wanted. So she tries to go back on her own, nearly gets herself killed. Everyone goes to rescue her, nearly gets everyone else killed. And then a lot of the rest of this chapter is really just kind of Reagan sitting in that, right? Like she, you know, for once, she can't just move on to the next challenge. She has to, you know, she's injured, she's stuck on a boat. She has no choice but to sort of sit there and sort of soak in that that feeling. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I think I think that's right. There's a lot of, there's a lot of sitting with discomfort in this one. Zach Glass Sitting with discomfort with Regan, but also I think a little bit with with Nia and her parents as well. Christian Kelley-Madera Totally. Zach Glass That, that was that was another interesting change in the plot that for the first time, we really got to see Nia interacting with her parents in a way that she hasn't before. And, again, spoilers towards the end of the chapter, it was much more brief of an interaction than they would have liked. And I think it's interesting to see, when the characters don't know that their interaction is going to be that brief. Right, like-- Christian Kelley-Madera Right. Zach Glass --Just seeing how they would interact in this first, after their first meeting, after a long time, where there still sort of these old tensions and these old frustrations occurring. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. And it's, you know, it's interesting, you say that, because now thinking back, we certainly didn't plan this ahead. But it was a, it ended up being a really convenient chapter, to have a new Nia. And like, we, we recast Nia for non plot, you know, reasons. And, of course, I think anytime you recast, there's going to be kind of-- the character is going to change a little like, it's not, I don't think it's realistic or fair to expect two actors to play a character the same way. And so I think it's kind of is a lucky break that we get to see Nia in our new context that that we haven't seen her before, as the chapter where we have a new actor, because it's kind of like it allows that actor to put their own mark on the character without like, oh, this character just changed for for no reason, you know, and Regina Renee Russell, who is doing a great job with Nia had, you know, she's doing a lot more of this kind of like, dialect code switching than we've done before. Like, she really leaned into that aspect of the character. And I think it makes a lot of sense that we're now seeing Nia interact with her parents, for long periods for the first for the first time. So that was cool, I think. Zach Glass Yeah, yeah, definitely cool. And, um, speaking, speaking of that, the sort of getting getting that change in in Nia's character, obviously, with the actor as well. We also had in this chapter, the arguments about who leaves to go to the Isles. And I think it's, it's interesting to discuss that a little bit. And to reveal behind the curtain a little bit that a lot of those debates that the characters were having were kind of debates that we were having as well. We were-- we didn't go into it knowing exactly how that was going to end up. That was sort of the as, as the characters were arguing, it kind of was the arguments that we were having in our writers room trying to decide how, how that should play out. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, that's a that's a long scene. And it's like almost a whole episode of just talking, that seems like 12 characters, or something. And if I remember correctly, because-- God this was like years, literally years ago that we were first writing this chapter-- but I think there are, if I remember, there are several drafts where that goes different ways. And it was a matter of like, looking at those drafts and seeing which one felt right and made the most sense to us, we did not go in knowing. Zach Glass It does also bring up that that quote from Pat Rothfuss that I always like bringing up because I find it was particularly informative, in this case, where Pat Rothfuss shows some disdain for writers who just say, Oh, I write what the characters would do in the situation, where he says, No, that's not-- as a writer, you're crafting the story actively. And it's not just enough to do what the characters would do. It would be to make the story how the story needs to go and justify it in a way that it makes sense for the characters to have done that. And I feel like that's something we struggled with a lot in executing this chapter and making sure not just what makes sense for the characters who goes where, but what makes sense for continuing our story. And who will go where in a way that, you know, we can justify, is it reasonable that these characters would make these choices that we need them to make for a plot purposes. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's always tough to kind of because I'm very much like, I always try to leave open the possibility that he characters will do something that surprises me or that I wasn't planning, and to like, follow what I think is believable. But then sometimes, like, if you realize that the result of that is that you've broken your plot in some way that you need to go back and engineer a way for it to not be like that. But that was a really challenging, that was really challenging scene to write because it's like, again, I think it's what would it be, it would be 9--11 characters in that scene, who all have their own motivations and character traits. And two of those characters we don't know nearly as well as the other nine. So like, keeping track of all that, and like staying fair and true to those characters in that argument was, that was one of the hardest things I ever wrote. I think and it's funny, because I was just listening to our friends at No Bad Ideas, their most recent episode, they were talking to Marissa Tandon, about about fandom, and about how, as they've done more fiction writing, they've become more forgiving of other fiction creators. And you know, there's the old complaint about, like, if you've got all these characters with information, like you could solve the the problem if they just talked to each other. And then realizing as a writer, it's like, Yeah, but that scene sucks, because it's like, you're just conveying information that the audience already knows. And that was, and as I was listening to this, I was like, yeah, that's about 15 minutes of our, of our show was was kind of that. And it's like, yeah, that's why it's hard like to keep it interesting and moving with information that the audience already knows. But I don't see, I don't think we could have just "dot dot dotted" over that decision. You know, it's such, it's such a monumental decision that I think we had to see the characters, like wrestling with it. Zach Glass I agree with that. And if anyone-- so we have a live YouTube stream going on, for those who don't know, so if anyone in the comments wants to chime in whether you know, how you felt about actually seeing that decision being made, please feel free to chime in. And thank you to everyone catching on YouTube. If you're listening on audio, later on, we do live stream the Q&A at the end of each chapter. So come join us for next chapter. I do want to say to be fair to us, though, you're you're right that, you know, if it's just you know, pure rehashing of what the audience already knows, that could get boring. But um, in our case, I don't think-- to be, to defend ourselves a little bit. I don't think that the audience necessarily knew, you know, they knew sort of each individual characters motivations, but I wouldn't say that they knew the discussion, if that makes sense. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, they didn't necessarily know how the characters would interact with each other. Zach Glass Yeah. And I think that to me, at least, that's why that scene was still interesting. Christian Kelley-Madera Right. Zach Glass Because everyone, everyone has their own ideas, but it's what happens when those ideas are confronted with opposing ideas that makes the scene interesting. Christian Kelley-Madera Sure. Zach Glass YouTube chat pointing out how many characters we're keeping track of at once. Christian Kelley-Madera It's not easy. Zach Glass Yeah, but we really like, you know, we wrote ourselves into this position but it's a it's a cool position to be in because it's, I think it's really interesting to see all these different viewpoints happening. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Chat is saying "straight up forgot about the Elven medicine that Gwen had". Yes, super so did we. And we kind of tried to like hang a lampshade on it with the with the narration there, but 100% we forgot about that. We were like, "oh, shit. We should say something about this probably". But yeah, okay. Is that a good--? I think that's a good recap, sum-up is that a good excuse to get into some of the the submitted questions? Zach Glass Yeah, one one thing I just wanted to transition us real quick as well about the many characters and forgetting what's going on. You mentioned briefly about Antonin Mooncrest somewhat, suddenly returning back to the the scene where he had previously left and no one really questioning it. And just to, to admit it for a moment, we may have slightly lost track of time and how surprising it may or should have been that he returned when he did. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I think we had we had definitely made some plans based around like he fully faked his death and everyone was supposed to think that he was dead. And nobody-- granted the head priest could forget that-- but like nobody else seems to be reacting to the fact that he's not dead. So we may have written ourselves into a little bit of an Oopsie there. Zach Glass That's okay. Just, in the in the YouTube chat, it was asked if there were any other alignments of how the parties could have split? And the answer is absolutely. Christian Kelley-Madera Oh, yeah. Zach Glass One of, one of the big questions we had, if it's okay for me to spill this Christian, but one of the biggest questions was, where's the baby going? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Zach Glass And this was probably 80% of our argument revolved around Where's the baby going? And if the baby's going that way, who has to go as well? So we ended up splitting the baby from Gwen and Arlene. And that was a very difficult split on, for them emotionally, but in a way for us emotionally as well as but um, so we had we had looked at all the different permutations, if the baby goes west, do Gwen and Arlene need to go west as well? If Gwen and Arlene are leaving, does the baby also need to leave? Is there a possibility that Nia would stay with her parents? That was another big, you know, emotional split, that was a difficult decision to reach. So to answer your question, there were many different permutations that uh, that we went through before we landed on the final, final choice that you all heard about. And with that, yeah, let's let's take that as a chance to transition into some of the questions we got. Christian Kelley-Madera And actually, I've just gotten a message. I think Garrett Armyn might be joining us in a moment, Garrett plays Brennen. I think our first question is a is a Brennen question. So this would be great if Garrett were, were going to join us. I guess I'll take that excuse to, to say one more thing about splitting the party is that it definitely occurred to us that like, you know, I think if you try like chasing what you think the audience wants all the time, you'll end up satisfying nobody. But that said, we very, like we do care, like, what our audience loves and gets excited about is like really useful feedback for us. And all of which is to say like, once we realized that it made the most plot sense for Arlene and Gwen to like, leave the main plot, then it kind of became figuring out like, Okay, well, we don't want their story to be over. So how do we keep them involved in the story? If we do this, and there's a, I don't want to spoil or commit to anything, but suffice it to say, like, we thought about that a lot, and have some some plans for that. Zach Glass Yeah, we we were, we were very concerned about how, how the audience might take them leaving. And we also, you know, they're wonderful characters, we did not want to lose them either. So we will do everything in our power to say that this story, their story is not yet concluded. Christian Kelley-Madera All right, so I've got Garrett in the clean feed. Welcome. Welcome, Garrett. We are We're glad you're here. I guess before we jump into the the specific user questions that we-- or, listener questions that we we have, I guess, did you have any overall thoughts you wanted to share about chapter seven? It was a it, was we recorded it a while ago, but it was our first it was our first chapter back from a long break. And it was our first chapter, you know, recording remotely. Let's start with, what are your reactions to to recording remotely for the first time? Garrett Armyn I was just saying it's not as fun, obviously, as being in the studio together. I missed the, you know, playing with everyone in person. But we've, you know, I think we've made the most of it and done have done a good job. I'm impressed with you guys that you've had the fortitude and uh, been able to keep going, been able to keep up with everything and keep writing and I've lost all of my motivation over the pandemic. I don't know about you guys. I am completely unmotivated to do anything. Let alone sit here and write for the love of writing. So I'm impressed that you guys are still pumping out content and I'm glad that we kept it up even though we couldn't be together in person. Hopefully we will be soon. Zach Glass Yeah, I'm very excited that we're back, You know, recording, getting to see you all even if it's online. It's better than you know, the years of not seeing you all so Garrett Armyn Absolutely better than nothing for sure. and keep telling the story. Zach Glass Yeah. So let's let's dive right in to a question we received off of Tumblr from the user Skinny Hiker. Who asked, "after the last episode, how many throwing axes does Brennen have left"? So, Brennen seems to have a never ending supply of throwing axes, doesn't he? Christian Kelley-Madera I mean- Garrett Armyn Maybe he--Go ahead Christian Kelley-Madera I was gonna say in the past, I assume he retrieved at least some of them. But it's a good question. I need to like actually, yeah, I don't have the question or the answer off the top of my head. Maybe I can go look at stuff while you guys uh-- Garrett Armyn How many axes can you fit? Christian Kelley-Madera --Yeah.-- Garrett Armyn Inside of a Bag O' Axe. Probably he retrieved most of them. I would assume that most people on the retrieving end of one of Brennan's axes were not able to make it too far. So... Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah-- Zach Glass that's probably true. Christian Kelley-Madera I think we said canonically at some point, he started with a dozen. I think that's-- I think that's right. And he gave... How many did he give? Because at the end of the chapter, he gifts a few-- Garrett Armyn That's right Christian Kelley-Madera to Arlene and Gwen. So how many--? Garrett Armyn That was a very solemn gift. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, um, lets see... Zach Glass YouTube chat thinks it was a very sweet moment. They're they're discussing right now how, like, it was really for Brennen a very, like, sort of like, the broadest gesture of emotion he's shown in a while. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Garrett Armyn He was giving his heart when he gave this axe. Zach Glass Do you think Garrett that he may have had names for the axes he gave? Because I don't think we've discussed his axes having names. But we know that Regan names her swords. Garrett Armyn Right. And swords are commonly named, right? But I don't know about axes. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Yeah, no, it's a good question. Like how disposable the throwing axes are considered. Chat points out and reading the script points out that Brennen gifts four axes at the end of the chapter. We're going to assume there's been some attrition over the course of our plot. So let's say he has somewhere between six and eight throwing axes left. Zach Glass That, that sounds reasonable. Christian Kelley-Madera I think that's probably-- yes. Garrett Armyn Sounds good! Zach Glass The YouTube chat is also discussing whether either carrier pigeons or bungee cords return the axes . I think that would be a pretty hilarious visual, axes on a cord. Garrett Armyn A boomerang axe. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Zach Glass That would be pretty awesome. Garrett Armyn That would be cool. Good idea. Christian Kelley-Madera I mean, but okay, but no because, because once it hits something, it does still stay there. Basically the same way that it would if it, if it wasn't attached to any-- I don't know what the cord buys you. I guess if you miss, like you totally whiff it. Zach Glass I mean, I guess you could pull it back. Christian Kelley-Madera Oh, you know what, though? He definitely he takes out a few elves in the fight in chapter six. And he probably doesn't have time to return to retrieve all of those. I'm amending my answer to um...between three and five. Garrett Armyn Oooof Zach Glass So he's kind of running low. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, that's a good Yep. Definitely. Garrett Armyn Doesn't he stock up when they, whenever they hit a town? Zach Glass That's probably true. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, he might have stocked up in Armstrumgard, but it's been I mean, yeah, they haven't been in a town since before the, the, the fair, the horse race or whatever it was. Garrett Armyn There must be a smithy in most of the places where their provisions are stocked. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, this is probably not, this is technically a spoiler, but it's not really a spoiler. They hit a town at the start of chapter eight. So we're just gonna say that Brennen stopped off and got some axes made and we're back up to 12. It's like a long rest. Garrett Armyn Or sharpened or some whatever it needed to be happened. Yeah, it's kind of like It's like going to the bathroom. It's not in the script. But it just has to happen. Christian Kelley-Madera We assume it happens. Garrett Armyn Its Brennen's Bathroom. Zach Glass "Brennen's Bathroom" is the name of the axe shop he frequents the most often Garrett Armyn off screen. Smithy. Yeah. Christian Kelley-Madera The chat is discussing if carrier pigeons were used to retrieve the axes and then just get confused and bring them to D'ay-vaad instead. Just shows up at D'ay-vaad doorstep with a pile of axes. Garrett Armyn Are they European or African carrier pigeons? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah yeah. Everybody wants D'ayv to come back. I also want D'ayv to come back. I will confess, D'ayv almost came back--I, we're--to part the kimono, we're, we're finishing up like a first draft of chapter nine right now. D'ayv almost came back in chapter nine and I-- but it ended up being too jam packed to add another plot point. So I'm definitely I'm not foreclosed on D'ayv coming back, I have some ideas about what he can do, but he has not confirmed back yet. Zach Glass And to follow up on that we actually had a question on Reddit from user Wooden Suit. Will we get more of Renault, Mag Uidhir, and the Annihilator? Um, speaking of characters who are quite entertaining, and not in the main plot? The short answer to that is yes. Christian Kelley-Madera Yes. Wait for chapter, wait for chapter eight. I think they might be in the first-- they might be in the first episode of chapter eight. Let me double check that. Yeah, so just sit tight until, what is it, June 26? Zach Glass That sounds correct. Christian Kelley-Madera You'll get your Renault and Mag Uidhir and the Annihilator. Zach Glass Awesome. Um, we'll go to another question from Tumblr. That was asking about the the orc settlements and the size of Iorden. So compared to Earth continents, how big is Iorden? And will it still be a while before First Snow meets the gang? Size wise? That's a question that we've kind of hand waved over a little bit. Christian Kelley-Madera Yes Zach Glass I'd say roughly ballparking it, closer to Europe size than to North America sized? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. So here's what I know for sure. I know that there is more continent to the west of the mountains than there is to the east of the mountains, because the continent to the east of the mountains is is limited on both sides by the ocean and the mountains. And we know it's like a week or so's ride from the ocean to the mountains. So we know about how big that is. And on the other side of the mountain, we haven't thus limited ourselves. So on the west of the mountains is as big as we, as the story needs it to be. And then north and south, we know that it is just big enough that you can have a like tundra in the south and tropics in the north. Zach Glass Yes. And to answer the second half of the question about how long will it be before First Snow meets the gang? I'll say I don't want to give any spoilers, but it would be pretty poor storytelling if it never occurred. So fair to say that that will happen at some point. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Is that a good point? Actually, we're not going to take a break now. But for the podcast version of this, we will take a break for some ads. So I'm going to say that now. And then we'll be back. You know, let's preview the next question. And then we'll be back for the next question after a break. Zach Glass So the next question we got are what are the party's favorite colors? And why did they like those questions? Sorry, why did they like those colors? Okay, great. So we're gonna come back to that after this break. Christian Kelley-Madera Okay, favorite-- Zach Glass I totally bungled that, that read on the break. Christian Kelley-Madera Its fine, I'm gonna don't worry I'm gonna bungle the ad when we get to that too. So it's it's fine. This will continue to be a prod-- a podcast that's only kind of half heartedly for profit. All right, favorite colors, huh? Zach Glass I think that Billy at least at the start of things was probably the the type of person who unironically liked his football team's colors because he was so into his football team that he thought they were the best colors Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, which I believe that we established are crimson and gold. Zach Glass Red and gold? Yeah. I feel like Jen would be the exact opposite. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. We know Brennen likes blue and gold. Because those are Guernatal colors. Zach Glass Right, for kind of the same reason. Christian Kelley-Madera It's-- now my brain is spinning because I'm really thinking like were, were favorite colors a thing and a pre modern society? They may have been more so because certain dyes were like, really, really hard to come by. Like-- Zach Glass That's true . Christian Kelley-Madera Like blue is a color of so many like royal royal houses and royal families because in Europe at least for a long time, like blues and purples were very, like things that could dye stuff blue and purple were very hard to come by. Zach Glass But on the flip side, our magic system would certainly allow for color changing magic to occur. Christian Kelley-Madera True. But it's, well, it's kind of a chicken and egg, right? Because you have to, you have to know the color to think, Oh, that would look good in that. You know what I mean? Like, that is true. Like, there's a famous bit of the Odyssey where the, you know, the wine, dark sea. Everybody's like, what, what the hell are you talking about? Like, that's not the color that water is, but some people who study ancient Greek think there wasn't a word for blue, in ancient Greek. And so because they didn't have that word. It's just like, oh, yeah, the oceans the color of wine. Garrett Armyn Or they just --they had blue grapes. And we don't have those anymore. Christian Kelley-Madera That's also possible. I thought this is going to be a real silly softball question. And it's kind of not. Garrett Armyn It's the hardest question. Yeah. I was definitely gonna say red for Brennen. No question. Christian Kelley-Madera You think? Because of, murder? Garrett Armyn Yeah. Because he, he enjoys blood. Christian Kelley-Madera Does he enjoy blood? Wow. Yeah, he might. Shit, he might. Garrett Armyn I think you have to, to be that good at something. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. I think actually, I think that um, this is sweet. I think that Arlene, like red, like there's some, like the Redmoor colors are some sort of like crimson. And I think Arlene, obviously for like, for a long time hated crimson because she hated anything to do with her family. But then Gwen wore a lot of crimson just because that's where she was working. And then, and so recently, Arlene has come back around to loving crimson, but kind of only when when Gwen wears it. Zach Glass That's nice. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. What would Reagan even, how would you even respond to being asked "What is your favorite color"? Zach Glass That's, that's a good question. Like, Christian Kelley-Madera I mean, it's probably it's like keep asking and find out why it's red, or something like that. Iwould be so scared to even ask her. Zach Glass Either that or like a, like, "What do you mean, favorite color color doesn't do anything for me. It's not stealing me money or killing me anyone? So why do I care"? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, no, I mean, I think that it's like, I think Regan is closed up, yeah like this, not to make it too heavy again, but like, I think Regan is closed off to her own humanity in, in a lot of a lot of ways. And it, it reminds me of that, like, there's that really nice scene between Brennen and Regan in this chapter, where she's like, she's maybe starting to have the insight of like, am I blaming myself for things that aren't my fault? Or like, am I? Like, is my brain fucked up? Like, she started to have that, you know, that kind of insight. And, you know, asking Brennen like, Did you blame yourself? Like, do you think it should have been you who died instead of your dad. and Brennen, like, without even thinking twice about it is like, yeah, of course. Alright, what's now, moving on to the next question? Can I go to sleep now? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not being a moment for for, for Regan to be like, Wow, okay. I don't, I don't want to be like that. So maybe this is the color question is a good jumping off point to ask you, Garrett, your reaction to that scene. Garrett Armyn I always feel like he's sort of not the straight man for her. But he's like her sounding board, right? It's always like, You're the queen. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Garrett Armyn All I can do is listen, I'm not exactly going to, you know, make the decision here. But I'll tell you what I think, I'm not gonna lie to you. So she's, you know, he's definitely the one who she bounces stuff off of to see, because he's not a yes, man. Christian Kelley-Madera Right Garrett Armyn He's always gonna say what he thinks about stuff. But Christian Kelley-Madera yeah, that's interesting. It's interesting. It's a good point. Like he's super loyal. But he's not a yes, man. And I think that's an interesting distinction. Garrett Armyn And he's doing it for her, but not really for her. Right. It's for the greater good because he believes that she's the one. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah Garrett Armyn So that's what he has to do. It's not it's like, it's not even a question for him. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah Garrett Armyn He doesn't have very many moral, like, conundrums. I feel like it's rare when he doesn't know which side of the fence he's on. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Zach Glass I took that scene maybe a slightly different way than what you were just saying about how, you know, the fact that without a pause he says, you know, yes, of course, that I think about it every day. I saw it more as like Reagan realizing that she's not the only one that struggles with things. Like, like a moment of it, like it never occurred to her that other people would feel the same sort of pain that she feels. Garrett Armyn Right or they'll be able to hide it. Zach Glass Yeah. Garrett Armyn Or that he could feel that even. Or someone else Zach Glass Yeah. As we said before, he doesn't show that level of pain openly that often. So I think I think so many so many ways that that that scene like could be could be seen I think. The YouTube chat by the way, very, very complimentary of your performance in that scene. So as always great job. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. That was I think that was a hard scene for you guys to have to do, you know, remote for the first time but you you and Anya both knocked it out of the park in my opinion. Garrett Armyn Well, ... Zach Glass Yeah Garrett Armyn It's good stuff. Christian Kelley-Madera Chat says, yeah, like, Jen's out here feeling all this pain about eating cheesy bread at two in the morning really makes you think. Zach Glass It's hard, hard to argue with that. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Zach Glass Back to colors. Do we think? Um, I feel like Yllowyyn would like the opalescent like shimmery elf color. But that might be a gimme, though. That might be an easy one. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Garrett Armyn Green. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he sure does wear a lot of green, Zach Glass Red Ren, I'm not so sure. Christian Kelley-Madera Who can say? Who can say Zach Glass Really, really no way of knowing. Speaking of which, I'm going to take this opportunity for a moment to shout out, speaking of Red Ren, we have our exclusive artwork for the chapter. As always made by our fantastic artist, John Flanagan. I'm going to flash it up on the the waiting scene for those watching live on YouTube. But, it's a beautiful piece of art featuring the Red Reaver and the the rowboat dinghy sort of being paddled away with the four silhouettes in it. And once again, just John, also an amazing job as always with the art. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I don't. I know. It's like, I don't know, maybe this is. Maybe this is obvious to other people. But it's really hard to get those reflections on the water looking real in a drawing. This is really impressive work. Zach Glass Yeah, and I will say that I've I've cropped it for YouTube slightly to make it fit better, but the patrons-- not to be a shill, but patrons will receive either a digital or a physical sticker of the full artwork that has, just it's a portrait orientation. And so the the reflections on the water just go for miles and miles. Christian Kelley-Madera Hey so chat now is actually, if you want to get your like really silly questions in, now would be a great opportunity, actually. Just throw that out there. What else? What else should we talk about internally here? I guess it's kind of hard to talk. You know, I'm always interested like what people are excited for. But since we're always a chapter or so ahead, that's kind of hard to do without spoilers. Zach Glass Yeah, I guess I will say here, we are on our new schedule of posting episodes. So chapter eight, is like, it's good to go. We're, you know, excited to start releasing chapter eight starting immediately next month, and on the one-a-month schedule through then, and knock on wood, hopefully chapter nine will be ready to go right after that. That timeline will be a little tighter, but I think we can achieve it. So I'm excited for that. From from the chat, the live chat. When we wrote Jen stealing the statue, did we already have firm ideas regarding how it would come into play? Or was it just something fun? We figured would be useful eventually when we needed it? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I think I just, you know, I knew like, oh, there's a good, there's a good MacGuffin that we can we can use and like let me remember to actually use this one sooner rather than later instead of the the elf medicine with that, that everybody forgot about. Zach Glass I think we knew well enough that it was going to be a problem. The specific nature of the problem or how they would use it was was left to be seen. But we were definitely like, Okay, this is going to throw a wrench in the works somehow, then this will give us a hook for later on. Christian Kelley-Madera Right. This is like too valuable, to the point that it's dangerous. Zach Glass We got a question, What did Brennen think was happening between Arlene and Gwen? Garrett Armyn He just didn't know. Christian Kelley-Madera It's a great question. I mean, like, I think to some extent, there's some, there's some plausible cover. Like I think that you know, a lady and her handmaiden would have just spent a lot of time together and like it actually, like, I think at some points in medieval history, it would not, it would not even have been, seemed necessarily sexual for them to share a bed. Like literally just like body warmth. So I think there is some plausible cover there but yeah, I think yeah, Brennen is maybe also just a little unusually closed off to matters of the heart. Yeah. If Antonin is Batman Hamlet, can he get a Robin? Again, not foreclosed to the idea of him getting a Robin I can't lie and say we have specific plans up to this point. But yeah, maybe. Zach Glass Although is his role as Batman disappearing now that he's sort of gone legit again? Christian Kelley-Madera Now that he's alive.. unless it needs to come back. Zach Glass That would be interesting. Christian Kelley-Madera Or unless he needs to like he needs to be the like the legitimate version. And then he needs he has to like get a Robin to be the the spirit of vengeance. Kind of a "good ghost, bad ghost" scenario. Good king, bad ghost. Zach Glass That's kind of funny. I don't even know if we have a character who the R obin could be, other than the high priest. which would be the funniest Robin imaginable. Christian Kelley-Madera Or D'ayv. Garrett Armyn D'ayv I was just going to say. There you go, that's how you bring him back. Zach Glass That would that would be pretty hilarious. D'ayv, D'ayv is so funny. Christian Kelley-Madera D'ayv's a good character. Zach Glass D'ayvis one of my favorite characters. I'm not gonna lie. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, that's true. We do need to, like reveal more of the plot of Duel of Crones or whatever we called it. Zach Glass Chat is asking about Jen's preferred pizza chain. And whether she and Billy agree, or if it's limited by what's around? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Okay, so I think it's definitely I don't want to be too much of a pizza snob. Let's see. I think there is where they live, there's an actually like a good like Mom and Pop pizza chain. Or not chain, but like a good pizza place that is struggling. We've established they have a Domino's. Zach Glass Does does Wawa go that far north? I know it's not a pizza place. But Pennsylvania people love their Wawa. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, but can you get can you get pizza? Even? I don't know if even like Wawa stans say the pizza is good at Wawa. You know what I mean? Like it's mostly the the sandwiches, yeah? Zach Glass Yeah, but would, would Billy be like "Why bother getting pizza when you can get a Wawa sandwich"? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, but everybody wants pizza sometimes. Zach Glass That's true. It's a universal fact. Christian Kelley-Madera We've we've established the Domino's is there right? And is Domino's like-- okay, this is this has nothing to do with anything, but the-- I think that bad pizza is its own genre of food. Zach Glass I'm 100% on this boat too. Christian Kelley-Madera Like sometimes you want pizza. And then sometimes you want bad pizza, which includes like Domino's, Pizza Hut, Papa John's. And of those...of those I think Domino's is the best? Like all considered like, we know that we know the dark forces that control Papa John's. We don't yet know the dark forces that control Domino's and it is better than Pizza Hut. Zach Glass Yeah, I mean, issues aside that garlic sauce is really good. I kinda like the garlic sauce at Papa Johns Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, the garlic sauce is good. Zach Glass Now we're just talking about pizza. We're no longer talking about the podcast. Christian Kelley-Madera Maybe that's the argument maybe before they went to Iorden, maybe that Billy is like, Papa John's is better. And Jen is like, Yeah, but you can't, like the CEO said the N word in a diversity call. Like we can't get Papa John's and like, that's the the disagreement. Garrett Armyn And Goya beans. They're not buying? Yeah. Zach Glass Was this all had this come to light at the time that, like it is canonically in the show? Yeah, that's a great question. Because the show started. Yeah, that is a terrific--I think about that all the time. Because, like, canonically Garrett Armyn What happened in the real world before they transported? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, canonically, right. They left our world in like 2012. Garrett Armyn A lot has changed. Yeah. Zach Glass A lot has changed. Yeah. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, they Yeah, they left they-- fuck, they left the, our world in Obama's first term. And I don't know if we're, I don't know if, like a month or two have passed in plot-time. We talk about, we talk about this all the time. So-- Garrett Armyn Is that right? Only a couple months? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, that's only a couple of months. Somebody made a timeline. Somebody, they shared it with me on Reddit. They, there's like a fandom wiki. That includes a timeline of everything that happened. Yeah. And it's like it's like a month or two. Yeah, all of them should be saying "yolo", thank you chat. Yeah, no, it's totally. It's yeah, it is technically a period piece. Zach Glass Chat also mentions about whether there's pizza in Iorden. Or if introducing pizza is how Billy shatters spacetime. I will say, I don't want to spoil too much. But we were writing a scene for chapter nine where... with some some introductions of new foods, and it is one of the most fun scenes we've had. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I mean, the short answer is there is not, there can't be pizza yet east of the mountains. Because we've tried to limit east of the mountains to Old World crops. So there's no tomatoes there. So there's no marinara sauce. So yeah, yeah, there is a scene in chapter nine about introducing some some, some new, some quote New World crops onto, into the story. Let's see. Okay, we've talked about pizza for too long. There's actually there's a lot of good questions- Zach Glass Yeah there are some serious questions if we want to talk about, who in the party is yllowyyn closest to? Because everyone else is kind of doing their found family thing. And he's just kind of there. I think that's a really interesting question. Because I think we, another another thing that we sort of struggled with was sort of how to handle Yllowyyn's contriteness at the, like, early stages of Book Two. I think prior to that, it probably would have been Brennen Garrett Armyn That's what I was gonna say. Yeah. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah I think he still has the um-- Sorry, I gotta stop reading chat for a moment so I can pay attention to the question. All of them are really into How I Met Your Mother, fuck, what a time. What was the fucking question? Zach Glass Yllowyyn. Who he's close with. Christian Kelley-Madera Oh, right. So he definitely had like he spent the most time with Brennen before the plot started. So I think there's a kinship there. I think maybe now like I think the way Nia is, like she's just kind of a very loving person. And so I think there may be a sort of like, gravitating towards Nia just as a matter of, like, this is like, this is the person who's going to be nicest to me right now. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think I think Yllowyyn is a little bit isolated just at this moment in the plot. Zach Glass Yeah, and he definitely became more isolated after the whole, like, getting chased out of the camp and then getting chased away from home. And he's probably if the, the plot pacing is so fast paced that sometimes there's not enough time to sort of dive into these things, but he's probably due for some, like, you know, character development or relationship development focused episodes. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. For sure. There's a music question in chat, so you know I need to jump on that. Zach Glass Yeah, what kind of music does Jen have on her iPhone? And can she still use the camera and flashlight and stuff? Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, I mean, we've definitely, she can definitely use, as long as she's got battery, which she now is a battery. She definitely can use like the other like the tool functions of iPhone. I know. Uh, yeah, she's definitely got like, a few of the best pop hits of 2012 for sure. I think she's also like, she's got the like, pump up mix for the football games. Like it's the type of thing where like, she gives somebody her phone and they plug it into the to the PA and that's the like, Pep Rally mix. So there's definitely some like jock jams and like, arena butt rock on there. And she also definitely, there's her dad's tape that like, so her dad gave her a, I think her dad gave her-- left her a cassette when she was very young, at some, like, I'm realizing now that she is entirely past like, she aged entirely past the CD age. So I think at some point, she like sent-- she had the tape like digitized. And that's now on her phone. And it sounds like dogshit because it's a cassette tape, you know, ripped to 128 kilobit per second mp3, but that's like her dad's music that she has. Zach Glass And I think well, because she she hadn't listened to it for a while, right? It took her a while to actually listen to it. Christian Kelley-Madera That's right. Zach Glass But I kind of imagined that she has, like other music that she was just exposed to from her dad that like, not that specific mixtape but she has like a classic rock streak. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, she probably does. That there's definitely see Yeah, there's some there's some ACDC on the pump up mix. But yeah, I think Kat's list is also like, yep, Taylor Swift, Lana Del Rey, Justin Bieber, Kesha, Lorde, Carly Rae Jepsen, it's all on there. All the hits of 2012 Zach Glass I now kind of really want to see like, a mini series. That's like a, almost like a game show. That's Billy and Jen playing our music for Brennen and Yllowyyn, and then just having Nelson sitting on the sides making wisecracks Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah, that's an expensive show, though, unfortunately. Zach Glass I don't mean to actually make it. I mean, just to imagine it. Christian Kelley-Madera that's good. Yeah, it's good to imagine. Zach Glass Like, what what would cause the biggest reaction from Brennen? Like, play play Brennen some Dragonforce or something? Garrett Armyn He'd probably dig it. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. It's occurring to me that we have established some parallels between like elf pop music and like, our pop music. So it's conceivable at least that Yllowyyn like, he has had the experience of not liking the same music as his sister. So I think maybe like arguing about pop music is maybe more-- is it's it's less alien to Yllowyyn than it is to Brennen. Zach Glass That makes sense. But they wouldn't have, so I guess on the Iordic side of the mountains, they wouldn't have audio recordings. It would all be live performances. But on First Snow's side if they have telegraphs, audio recording is not that far off. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Yeah. Zach Glass This is this is an entertaining line of questions. Thank you for asking. Yes, I like this. We're now approaching an hour of stream time so I think it it might be about time to wrap us up. Garrett, do you have any last thoughts you want to close on anything about this chapter at the upcoming chapters without spoiling too much? Garrett Armyn I'm afraid to say anything. I thank you all for listening. It's awesome that this show has an audience because without an audience, it's not a show. So it's really awesome. And thank you guys. And thank you guys for having me on here. And I'm sorry again that I was late. Zach Glass It's all good Garrett Armyn But I'm always honored to be to, you know, be a part of this thing. It's really been-- I mean, I was just thinking, we're talking about 2012, my 10 year old daughter, probably you saw walk by, she was born when this thing started. So it's been awesome to to be doing this with you guys for so long. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. Every time I start to, like lose track of how long we've been doing this and how intimidating it is, I always like think about how old is Garrett's kid. Garrett Armyn She's 10. It's a milestone. A yard marker. Yeah. For sure. Christian Kelley-Madera Yeah. No, we're coming up on nine years of releasing episodes this September. Garrett Armyn It's awesome. Zach Glass That's wild. Garrett Armyn Yeah. It is wild. Zach Glass Do you have anything Garrett that you want to plug? Any other projects going on, you want to talk about while you're here? Garrett Armyn No, not right now. I'm good. Thank you for asking that, I appreciate it. Zach Glass Awesome. Christian, do you have anything you want to plug? Any any shows you've been listening to that you really liked that you want to mention? Christian Kelley-Madera Ooofa Doofa. Zach Glass I don't mean to spring that on you at the last minute. I'm sorry. Christian Kelley-Madera Who do I want to hang on, I gotta get my, overcast dot F M What is my podcast list? Who do I want to plug? I've been listening to a, like a medieval history podcast called We're Not So Different. Which is really, I mean, it's really, it's kind of like, it's mostly a Medieval History podcast with like someone who has a PhD in that in that sort of thing. But it's also like what's it called? They just spent 25 episodes, so half a year, kind of doing like the entire history of the world through the lens of historical materialism. So it's a pretty, it's a it's a left leaning history podcast, which has been like, I never really dived into that from a history perspective. So that's, that's been cool. Yeah, check that out. Because I think a lot of people who listen to our show, are definitely interested in like, someone who knows what they're talking about talking about the Middle Ages. So that's my plug. And then yeah, we're coming back. We'll have--we have minisodes. So if you're watching the live stream, we have minisodes coming this coming Sunday, the 15th of May. If you're listening to this as the podcast that will have already passed, but then we have chapter eight, premiering on June 26. And yeah, the stuff we've got coming up, I'm I'm really, really excited for it. Zach Glass There's there's some very exciting things coming up. So as Garrett said earlier, thank you, all of our listeners, it's so sort of indescribable that you're all sticking here with us. And I'm so happy you're here. And I'm excited for you all to hear what's coming up next. It's really, the stories-- I think we're still improving as we go and I'm very excited to release the next episode. And with that, I think that wraps up the Ask The Once And Future Nerd for Book Two, Chapter Seven. Thank you all for listening. Enjoy Chapter Eight upcoming and we'll talk to you for the Q&A session at the end of chapter eight. Christian Kelley-Madera Thanks, everybody. Zach Glass Bye Transcribed by https://otter.ai